Short Swords vs Long Swords

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:46 pm

I've recently started a new crew to check out some things and realized that at least for a young crew, it appears better to equip my Tanks with Short Swords rather than Long Swords--due to having the extra attack (2 vs 1, which is double for newish crew members).

And from brief comparison--my guys are doing significantly more damage by getting 2 smaller licks in compared to 1 bigger lick (with a Long Sword).

A bit later in the game as yer tanks have leveled high enough to get at least 2 strikes per round, then it should nearly even out (ie, 3 strikes with a SS vs 2 strikes with a LS), and by the time yer tanks get 3 strikes from leveling up--the LS is clearly superior (4 strikes with SS vs 3 strikes with LS) since the extra damage per strike overcomes the decreasing dif between # of strikes.

Basic Weapon stats appear to support this:

Short Sword
Damage: 1d8 (4.5 pts damage per strike)
StatEffect: +1 NAT

Long Sword
Damage: 2d6 (7 pts damage per strike)
[no stat effect]

so..
1d8 = 1+ (1x8) / 2 = 4.5 (2x for xtra attack) = 9 pts avg damage
vs
2d6 = 2 + (2x6) / 2 = 7 (1x for no xtra attack) = 7 pts avg damage

so, all else being equal--seems getting the add'l strike with a Short Sword is worth it in terms of total damage per round.

btw, does anyone know fersure what 'NAT' stands for?
Natural Attacks?
Number of Attacks?
Naughty at Times??

KSS · Post by **KSS** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:13 am

Yup; NAT stands for Number of ATtacks.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:25 pm

Thanks for the verification, KSS.

So if a low-level hero (with only 1 NAT) tries to grapple with a Labrys Colossas (which sports a -2 NAT), that should mean our young hero would deal a -1 attack each time he/she tries to swing the LB..?

Guessing the system allows a single attack even under those circumstances?

About to find out.. as my ST 18, Level 3 Warrior purchases & attempts to kick some Townies' butts!!

As I'm playing with a new crew (using the Excellent MegaMod ver), I'm seeing all over how helpful High Dex is for most if not all crew members.

Finally trying a Bard--but didn't roll enough to give 'er high Dex, so while Diit's Eternal Song is great--as many here have suggested--it would sure help if she could starting playing Before every single Dwarf or Nomad got their harsh licks in!

And sorta amusing how often she putz Herself to sleep!?
Roughly 20% of the time.. and occasionally one of her crew-mates. Who generally seem to appreciate the extra winks.

KSS · Post by **KSS** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:28 am

Don't abuse Diit's Dirty Deeds : it has a tendancy to flat-out what should otherwise be tough fights.

That reminds me: I have to find time to pursue my goal of cleaning the scripts.

Let me check... 73 done ... 540 to go ... Ouch!

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:38 pm

Good point.. Diit's is pretty potent for such a low-level crew.
Would be sorta like having BLLI available to a 1st level Ele.

540 scripts??!
wow.. thanks for your dedicated work!

Would it be difficult to 'enable' the Elf & Dwarf Shoppes?
There's a number of interesting items that appear to be only available thru one of those shoppes, yet AFAIK those shoppes were never enabled/made public.

And after looking thru both the items & monster's list--it appears there's a number of items not available at shoppes or as monster drops..

As someone who played thru the entire original game (v2.0), it was kinda disappointing to so rarely get any really good treasure drops.. so I ended up simply crafting in order to get good weapons, armor, etc..

Would have been cool if more high-level items were available at least at 1 shoppes--even if for crazy-high costs..

KSS · Post by **KSS** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:46 am

Growler wrote: Would it be difficult to 'enable' the Elf & Dwarf Shoppes?
There's a number of interesting items that appear to be only available thru one of those shoppes, yet AFAIK those shoppes were never enabled/made public.

AFAIK these shops were not implemented: I tried logical values for special events such as 1015, 1016 (based on those that appear at the end of the map tutorial pdf) and all made the game crash.

Growler wrote: Would have been cool if more high-level items were available at least at 1 shoppes--even if for crazy-high costs..

That said, it wouldn't be difficult to script an exclusive shop that sells rare (even unique) items, accessible maybe via a mini-quest.

Which makes me think : some time ago I had an idea for a combat-less, riddle-heavy dungeon providing a unique item for almost each class; the access puzzle was all but complete; I could keep it and replace the dungeon with a shop.

I'll think about it (but don't be too impatient, for I have little free time, and I just spotted a little 1-y-o monster crawling into my room...)

chaney · Post by **chaney** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:22 am

Ya godst to kill them monsters whilst they are young and untested.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:48 pm

Cheney!

That's awful. But must agree.

KSS, I'll try to be patient

That sounds uber-cool.. the exclusive shop &/or riddle-heavy dungeon with unique treasures!!

Would only request that you incl a good fight either before or after each riddle--so it would feel like yer crew truly earned the item.

Also, how would you feel about including a few forum-member's suggestions for special items? -already in the proper format according to the items_BL2D.txt file, so hopefully wouldn't take much extra time for you?

May be some potential issue with item TypeID#'s, so could save that for last--to be assigned by you?

I'll handle the forum stuff (as best I can based on limited knowledge of the items file) if you can magically create time to implement?

And maybe RicksTavern &/or Dragonbait could host the updated files in a revamped MegaMod?

Do it for the little monster...in all of us

dragonbait · Post by **dragonbait** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:17 pm

Growler wrote:And maybe RicksTavern &/or Dragonbait could host the updated files in a revamped MegaMod?
Do it for the little monster...in all of us

If any changes are made to the MegaMod, please email me, or PM me so I can update the file on my site so others may have easy access to the most current version of the MegaMod. Thanks.
8)

& getting back on subject, I never really gave a thought to short sword versus long sword. I always just opted for the longsword. Figured it hit for more and the short was for lesser powerful races like the hobbit or whatnot. But knowing about the additional NAT, well I guess it makes worthwhile to use the shortsword.

But isn't there a halberd I can use?

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:39 pm

Roger that & Thanks for your generous hosting of files, etc.

Yeah, same here--never thought about short vs long until eye recently set up a new crew & happened to get a shorty for one of my warrior hobbits

and noticed he kept doing more damage--largely due to get a 2nd swing in.. so looked up the weapon stats & saw that if other aspects were the same, then the shorty should do more damage than el longo.

But as I mentioned in first post, by the time yer warriors (Hobbits or nada) hit level 7 and get their 2nd swing, then it's a close call.. and by the time they get a 3rd swing--it's all over for mister shorty.

Unless yer comparing a magical super-shorty to a plain-Jane el longo.

Are there any Halberds in the game??
That would be cool, but don't recall seeing any.

Hey--if KSS or someone can revamp the items list, then we could spec out a Horrendous Halberd! 8)

dragonbait · Post by **dragonbait** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:11 pm

I seem to remember adding in a new item or two into the basement, so creating items is a go. It's been so long I don't remember what exactly, but seems one was something like punching gloves for a monk or the like.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:17 am

Just searched thru what I think is the latest MegaMod items file and don't see the Monk punching gloves--but maybe I missed them.. seems like a groovy item for a Monk to have--give a knockout punch while protecting his knuckles.

could have something along these lines..

Type: Blunt Weapon (was gonna say 'Gloves' but they're more weapons than armor)
Name: Monk's Punching Gloves
Description: Enter the ring with these pugilistic punchers and your faster fighting types will be sure to land a knockout blow.
Class: Bb Mo Ra Ro Wa
Damage: 3d6+2
StatEffect: -3 AC
StatEffect: +2 NAT
StatEffect: +4 AT
StatEffect: +2 DX
SpecialDamage: Deathblow 25%
Minimum: DX 18
Location: hand
Value: 75000

KSS · Post by **KSS** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:13 am

Growler wrote: Would only request that you incl a good fight either before or after each riddle--so it would feel like yer crew truly earned the item.

Also, how would you feel about including a few forum-member's suggestions for special items? -already in the proper format according to the items_BL2D.txt file, so hopefully wouldn't take much extra time for you?

I think I'll go with the overpriced shop angle, so sorry, there'll be no fight.

My idea is to have mundane (but good quality) items, taken from the already existing items, and a 'unique items' menu offering 1 item for each class.

So tell me:

-which mundane items would you like to see ?

-do you have ideas for uniques (I already have the redclaw, bard, paladin and monk artifacts; for the monk I might use the punching gloves instead of the ranged wp I had in mind)

And once again, please don't expect me to code all that soon...

dragonbait · Post by **dragonbait** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:02 am

hmm. I might have used items that were created but never implemented into the game. I threw them all into a treasures chest in quadrant #2.

Code: Select all

#bwquad2chest
from eventAPI import *
from APIUtils import *

bwquad2chest = 0

def fireEvent&#40;e&#41;&#58;
   global bwquad2chest
   bwquad2chest = getTag&#40;e, "bwquad2chest"&#41;
   if &#40;bwquad2chest == 1&#41;&#58;
      return 1
   else&#58;
      showMessage&#40;e, &#91;"Upon a table in this room you find some items of value."&#93;&#41;
      giveItems&#40;e, &#91;"Poison Long Sword", "Lightning Lute", "Holy Gloves"&#93;&#41;
   bwquad2chest = 1
   setTag&#40;e, "bwquad2chest", bwquad2chest&#41;
   return 1

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:00 am

Dragon, yeah--Holy Gloves are in the items file..

Type: Gloves
Name: Holy Gloves
TypeID: 74
Description: These fashionable accessories provide advantages while battling the undead.
StatEffect: -2 AC
StatEffect: +2 WI
Class: Mo
#Effect: Damage +10 against undead
Charges: unlimited
Location: arms
Value: 2200

looks like the 'Damage +10 against undead' effect got rem'd out?
to work, there would need to be some sort of anti-undead spell associated with the gloves, right?

-------

KSS, that's cool.. I'm working on a change & add list.. will post in a day or so & see what ya thinks.

What is your definition of a mundane item? -as in, no magic associated with an item?

Do you know how the TypeID works?
For ex, if adding a new item to the list--just make sure it's TypeID# doesn't conflict with an existing ID#?

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