Sys Admin Problems

origen · Post by **origen** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:49 am

And the way I see it, I have paid good money on games from big companies that are full of bugs that they don't even fix.

Not to mention that they have been receptive to our ideas on improving the games, and have instituted most of them, so I think they deserve a little patience from our part.

Domhnall4h · Post by **Domhnall4h** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:18 am

Ever heard of Ultima X (or XXX, whichever the last one EA screwed up was). It was so buggy as to be unplayable at release, from all I was told. Same for almost every other commercial game I've bought in the last 8 or so years. The difference being that those games have multi-million dollar companies, with large development teams and paid tester who, if they weren't as lazy as growler, should have found at least half the bugs (granted, the programmers should have found half as well). If you can't have the patience for a patch to come out, then you need to go back to Pong, as it's the only game with the level of complexity you'll have the patience for.

Save for this latest patch, which is delayed due to hackers and other such losers, the SSS team has done a good job of releasing patches in a timely manner. They match the speed of patch releases in some of the games I've bought, and outright stomp others.

jj_frap · Post by **jj_frap** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:12 am

I never said that larger companies are providing an acceptable level of support.

In April of 2002, I purchased the PC port of Grandia 2, which had a myriad of bizarre problems. I exceeded the recommended requirements to play the damn game, but I could not get the game to work at all on Windows ME, an OS wich was supported. When I switched to XP shortly after, the game worked, but half the time I had to use all of these special debug function keys to skip movies that wouldn't load (and which were compressed using a 1995 version of Indeo) or to disable shadows so that the game could be playable. A lot of the time the voices wouldn't work, and there was weird text when I tried altering my magic configuration. Often times spells would be glitchy because the running time for the spell FMV animation was generally 20 - 30 seconds longer than the actual animation. Other people reported similar bugs, and a few I had never experienced.

And how many patches were released?

0

Ever since then, I've downloaded any UbiSoft game I've wanted to play, because I didn't trust them enough to provide an acceptable level of support to justify my paying for the game.

Given the multitude of problems facing Chessmaster 10th Edition, I feel proud of my decision.

To be fair though, I have purchased President Forever and Prime Minister Forever...The support has been far from spectacular, but I consider it acceptable for the amount I paid for the games...

My brother has experienced similar problems with EA Sports NHL series...EA developed a philosophy of providing half-arse patches or not patching the game at all under the argument that console gamers would not have the opportunity to patch their games...I see a few problems there...Console games are developed to a uniform hardware standard and should not have any bugs serious enough to effect gameplay or to impede performance if progammed competently...Additionally, people pay for PC games under the assumption that they will get bug fixes and updates...And EA has left them high and dry in recent years...

As far as I'm concerned, the government ought to regulate the software industry the way it does others, so as to ensure that quality and customer support are at a consistently acceptable level.

If you buy a car or an appliance with a serious defect, the government will force the company to recall it and provide you with a full refund.

Unfortunately, when you buy a buggy game, you get nothing of that sort, and you can generally only exchange it for the same swordbinding game due to copyright regulations.

As long as there is unacceptable tech support, there will be software piracy.

As long as gamers in Western Europe, Australia, and the U.K. are forced to pay over 50% more for commercial games than us North Americans (they should pay less, due to the delays they face and the sloppy NTSC-to-PAL conversions they are forced to put up with...How a multi-billion dollar multinational can be dumb enough to fh'ork up a simple conversion is well beyond me...It should take a day or two to do right.)...And for games that are budget titles here, like Sonic Mega Collection Plus, some countries are forced to pay 200 - 300% of the price in the U.S. I would never pay for a game if I lived in that part of the world. They should pay our prices plus any taxes and that's that.

As long as there are impoverished nations, there will be software piracy.

Domhnall4h · Post by **Domhnall4h** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:24 pm

Where in the nine hells did that come from? And why did you compare video games to cars and appliances?

The government forces recalls on Fords and other poorly designed cars for a reason. Those Pintos, Mustangs, Crown Vics, and God only knows how many other models which have the gas tank just in front of the bumper, allowing for the big bang to become reality, can and will kill people. A faulty appliance can cause fires, and kill more people. A video game won't do either, it'll only raise the blood pressure of immature people who can't control themselves. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for more money to be wasted (and the government already does a great job of doing that!) on a pointless office. The only software that needs to be regulated is the software that can allow for people to steal others identity, and if people weren't so stupid as to post the Socials online and have credit cards, that wouldn't be necessary either. Thing is, those companies who develop those kinds of products are constantly updating and tightening security in their systems (save Microsoft, who introduce more security loopholes it seems with every patch).

In terms of SSS' support of DW, they have gone beyond what 99% of both independants and commercial companies do. Jon or someone is always posting around the forums (at least there were at the old forums, I don't post much at this one). They've sat there and held polls to determine features people wanted the most, and then put them in. The only time they have held back a patch release is this latest, and that was due to hackers, not through any fault of their own. And further more, they have tried to accomodate as many people as possible during this time. wenchin' and whining about them, and then going off on a completely unrelated rant is uncalled for, and only shows how ignorant you are.

I also have to tell you, unacceptable tech support is no where near even being a minor cause of piracy. So long as there's software, there will be software piracy. People are always looking to get stuff for cheap or free. The best games out there have been pirated a hundred times over, and it will remain that way until the end of the world. Finally, until you've learned a programming language, don't ever assume it will be easy to do right. I'll post real code, which will cause you to melt into a puddle of goo. And likely crash the forums, due to the sheer length. Most modern programs are thousands upon thousands of lines, just in the main.cpp file. When you have to go through that, searching for the little things that relate to the NTSC/PAL formats, and change them to work without killing the entire thing; then recompiling, to only find out it's all fucked and you have to go through again...

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:26 pm

Dom, where in the 12 hells did that come from?

You should just come out & type what you Really feel...not hold back so much--it's bad for digestion. Besides, I figured what with yer new DD girlfriend, you'd be real laid back now...just like you'd smoked a few doobies with your favorite prez 8)

On a lighter note, Origen could have achieved at least 1 whole new forum rank with the massive content of last 2 missives!

Every day, as I learn new knots to tie, I realize just how ignorant & unwise I am...sure Dom considers himself more aware, knowledgeable, & wise now than he was 10 years ago. So, hopefully, we'll all feel more grandiose in another 10 yrs. Except fer mebe Origen...who seems pretty well max'd out in the grandiose dept!

I'm just relieved that Dom does support guv oversight of at least some businesses...Pinto beans really can make one explode.

douglas_b · Post by **douglas_b** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:45 pm

, I figured what with yer new DD girlfriend, you'd be laid by now...

Wow, Growler that is really harsh... hahaha....

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:03 pm

Doug! I can't believe it--you're using one of O-man's bad trix!!!!

(what would your parental unitsay??)

douglas_b · Post by **douglas_b** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:37 pm

I would like to think they would be laughing hard... but somehow I don't think so...

origen · Post by **origen** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:48 pm

I must say, I kind of blacked out trying to read that many words in a single post, and it wasn't even a palindrome!?!

But, There is no reason to inslut Dom's DD Dildo. Whatever makes people happy...

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:22 pm

Wow...a semi-shared laugh with O-man...at Dom's expense...sounds like a therapeutic break-thru of the most sordid kind!

douglas_b · Post by **douglas_b** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:26 pm

well that is something to celebrate... something you can both laugh at.. together.

HGamer · Post by **HGamer** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:27 am

It's jarring to try to be on-topic after all that, but jj may think that some of us are blowing off SSS' responsibilities to support DW. Actually, I think all of us longtime posters on the old board - and many have now showed up on the new one - got quite a good feeling from FyL and Jon (Senrats) when they participated in the old forums. I think we got quite good support then.
Now, it's too early to tell. It's a swordbinding shame all the info accumulated on the old forums is gone. We'll just have to slowly answer all those questions all over again. And wait for the patch that - I want to be very careful about my words here - could probably have been released a while ago except for matters that I don't know enough about to judge.

Here's hoping SSS comes back and puts our bickering-in-the-absence-of-solid-info to rest.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:59 pm

For the voice of reason, see ^

Domhnall4h · Post by **Domhnall4h** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:12 pm

Meh. I doubt these forums will ever get the level of participation that the old ones did. The devs were down for too long, and the community is fading. There's what, 5 regular posters here? Myself, Origen, Growler, HGamer, and Doug. Not counting Origen's multiple personalities. Then it goes up to about 30 or so. I don't recall seeing Grodst, Corwin, Fyl, or Blkaddr, who were the other regular posters before. It's kinda sad, but DW just hasn't maintained the same level of dedication that The Bard's Tale did all those years ago, despite having modding capabilities to expand the game further than anything any of the classic series had ever done. I barely feel an urge to even finish it, much less modify it to any extent.

It remains to be seen whether DW has established enough support to bring in the announced expansion and later sequel.

Growler · Post by **Growler** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:47 pm

Hey, chin up & buck up my good fellow...betcha Grodst will pop back in sometime...FyL hopefully...and I have a clue that Ms. Adder may return when her pooter gets better??? (you guys Did promise to get her a faster Internet connection, btw).